Discussions on J.Krishnamurti

Posted By Author on January 12, 2011


In the wee hours Saxena left for purchases.  I finished exercise, meditation, warm water bath, etc. and was waiting for his call.

Baba called in Prabhakar and me.  We had discussion on J.Krishnamurti and other topics.  Baba then gave the following dictation:

“Let me start with one incident. In the year 1899, Swami Vivekananda had been engrossed in deep meditation somewhere in Southern India.  Some people went there to have his ‘Darshan’. Suddenly Swamiji got up from meditation and declared before the persons gathered, ‘Rejoice India.  The decree is given out.’  By decree Swamiji meant the decree from the Divine about the physical independence.  The result was appearance on the scene of many uniquely talented persons.  After the physical independence had been achieved, those forces were temporarily withdrawn from the surface for the purpose of inner assimilation.  This phase of silent assimilation is still going on.  May be, the purpose is almost fully served already and when this phase comes to an end those

forces will start work with the result of resurgence of new talents again.   Before this is done some sort of external chaos will remain to prevail.  Though there should not be any undue optimism about it yet nobody need be too much worried.  An army of big leadership is in the offing.  With that expectation those who have the genuine aspiration for the service of humanity at large, let them prepare themselves inwardly for the great task, for the great renaissance that is bound to emerge soon.  Once and for all give up the pessimistic attitude.  Keep yourself ready so that when the call comes you are not caught napping.”

The context of the above passage was that Prabhakar in discussion remarked that there was a void of leadership not only in India but also in the whole world.  The real leadership was discerned in the first quarter of the 20th Century. Therefore, the above dictation was given. It clearly meant that he was at the helm to bring renaissance.

Baba said that he would give one question and both of us should together solve it:

A man who will not reason is a bigot, one who cannot is a fool, and one who dares not is a slave. William Drumond has said this.  Now write critical analysis with proper elucidation of aforesaid observation.”

Baba then told us that he was available till evening only.  He would remain closed for fifteen days from next day and that Prabhakar was permitted to leave on 13th April 67.  He then went inside.

We took meals and we were busy in discussion of the given problem but then Baba called both of us.  First he took me around and showed newly planted vegetable and flower plants.  We then sat for discussion.

Baba remonstrated Prabhakar, “When two or more speak, do not snatch words from the mouth of your friend.  This is unmannerly.”

From J. Krishnamurti’s ‘The first and the last freedom’, 1964, ninth impression, some chapters were read out and we expressed our inability to understand it and requested him to make it explicit.

Mrs.Anne Besant was once President of the Congress party of India. She was Theosophist. She groomed, reared and educated J Krishnamurti to inherit the reins of the Theosophical Society at Adyar, the head quarter near Madras. However Jiddu Krishnamurti rebelled against thinking and thoughts of Theosophy and split came in 1897. He propounded his own independent thoughts and mostly lived abroad. He was a bachelor. He went on revising his earlier thoughts. He was greatest thinker of the twentieth century. He was offered billions of dollars but refused to accept it. After his demise, Mehata sisters, his close disciples, published a book from London revealing their sexual relationship with J Krishnamurti. Alas! It was unfortunate that they did not conceive and beget a child who would have been a mini giant thinker. Is it not loss of the world? Close associates of a person disclose about one’s sex life after that person’s demise. Is not that cowardice? Mathai, Mao Zedong’s physician Dr.Li Zhisui, Germeny Das, Mehta sisters belong to this category.

Baba’s criticism is as below: Page numbers are of J.Krishnamurti’s book

Page 150: Why spiritual teachers?

Baba’s opinion, ”Essential and fundamental truths will come down upon you when you are silent in the core.  Now stillness and quietude are not the state of being silent.   Quietude simply implies that the mental substances are still.  Thoughts are there but there is no disturbance inside.  The state of being silent is quite different.  With a quiet mind and a quiet vital after continuous penetration into the different layers of consciousness – and that is what ‘Sadhana’ really is.  You achieve an ineffable stage and state where thought ceases to exist.  That is the state of being silent.  When you get at the stage truths, absolute and relative, primordial and fundamental, descend upon you, upon your central self like lucid flow of transparent water. This state you can never get at through even deepest possible thinking.”

P.150 on ‘Guruwad’ (wad=debate)

Baba’s interpretation, “This is only a speculative problem and only a semantic acrobatics.  You do not find truth through another.  This is not the meaning of Guruwad.  Guru knows he is one with you and he helps you by his own experience to realize your own oneness with him and the cosmos.  When that stage is achieved Guru and Shishya (disciple) become one, the relationship ceases. (On 9-4-1967 Baba further gave extension of Guruwad as follows).  In addition to what I told you about Guruwad yesterday, I must make this assertion that there the function of Guru does not end.  In every phase of ‘sadhana’ the aspirants face some such subjective and cosmic hurdles, which they will not be able to cross without the direct infusement of some Divine Forces into the aspirant by the Guru.  In the whole history of ‘sadhana’ there is not a single exception even a Buddha, a Christ were no exceptions.  Herein lies real necessity of Guru.  It does not mean if you yourself do not try to the last ounce of your abilities, the Guru will come forward to your rescue.  It is when you have tried to the best and the highest of your abilities and have failed then and then alone Divine assistance through the Guru will come.”

P.150 ‘Clear’:  “That is basically you go to a teacher because you are confused. If you were clear, you would not go near Guru” By J. Krishnamurti.

Baba’s criticism on the above:

“Everything depends upon what the writer means by the term ‘clear’.  If this word connotes Supreme clearly then it is O.K., but if it is used in the general sense then the writer is wholly in the wrong.  A real aspirant goes to a Guru, not simply because he is not clear about this or that but because he feels he is not perfect.”

P.151.      ‘To be aware no Guru is necessary’ by J. Krishnamurti.  Baba’s comment:  “The writer is totally in the wrong.  When you are vaguely aware, the function of the Guru is to make you immensely aware.  It is against cosmic laws to make one aware in the right sense when one lacks even an iota of awareness.”

‘Confused’ by J. Krishnamurti.

Baba’s criticism:  “Simile and example do not explain anything.  When you speak of things in one dimension, if you take recourse to examples and similes from another dimension, your intellect runs riot in a confusion of intellectual anarchy.  In all genuine cases a ‘Shishya’ never chooses a ‘Guru’, it is the enlightened who chooses the ‘Shishya’, though sometimes in the external side the case may be reverse apparently but only apparently.”

After this lot of discussion took place.  It was pitch dark.  Under torch light dictations were noted. On United Nations Organisation (UNO) Baba opined, “ It will meet the fate of the League of Nations unless man is free from ego. The UNO at its best is a debating club and at its worst a hoax.

Baba then gave detailed instructions to be followed, as he would remain closed for fifteen days. I doubted it.  Prabhakar paid his last obeisance to Baba presuming he would not see him anymore.  We came back and he went in.  Finished dinner, chat and slept.

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